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Interviewing Chomsky Radio B92, Belgrade
Why do you think these attacks happened? To answer the question we must first identify the perpetrators of the
crimes. It is generally assumed, plausibly, that their origin is the Middle
East region, and that the attacks probably trace back to the Osama Bin
Laden network, a widespread and complex organization, doubtless inspired
by Bin Laden but not necessarily acting under his control. Let us assume
that this is true. Then to answer your question a sensible person would
try to ascertain Bin Laden's views, and the sentiments of the large reservoir
of supporters he has throughout the region. About all of this, we have
a great deal of information. Bin Laden has been interviewed extensively
over the years by highly reliable Middle East specialists, notably the
most eminent correspondent in the region, Robert Fisk (London _Independent_),
who has intimate knowledge of the entire region and direct experience over
decades. A Saudi Arabian millionaire, Bin Laden became a militant Islamic
leader in the war to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan. He was one
of the many religious fundamentalist extremists recruited, armed, and financed
by the CIA and their allies in Pakistani intelligence to cause maximal
harm to the Russians -- quite possibly delaying their withdrawal, many
analysts suspect -- though whether he personally happened to have direct
contact with the CIA is unclear, and not particularly important. Not surprisingly,
the CIA preferred the most fanatic and cruel fighters they could mobilize.
The end result was to "destroy a moderate regime and create a fanatical
one, from groups recklessly financed by the Americans" (_London Times_
correspondent Simon Jenkins, also a specialist on the region). These "Afghanis"
as they are called (many, like Bin Laden, not from Afghanistan) carried
out terror operations across the border in Russia, but they terminated
these after Russia withdrew. Their war was not against Russia, which they
despise, but against the Russian occupation and Russia's crimes against
Muslims.
The "Afghanis" did not terminate their activities, however. They joined
Bosnian Muslim forces in the Balkan Wars; the US did not object, just as
it tolerated Iranian support for them, for complex reasons that we need
not pursue here, apart from noting that concern for the grim fate of the
Bosnians was not prominent among them. The "Afghanis" are also fighting
the Russians in Chechnya, and, quite possibly, are involved in carrying
out terrorist attacks in Moscow and elsewhere in Russian territory. Bin
Laden and his "Afghanis" turned against the US in 1990 when they established
permanent bases in Saudi Arabia -- from his point of view, a counterpart
to the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, but far more significant because
of Saudi Arabia's special status as the guardian of the holiest shrines.
Bin Laden is also bitterly opposed to the corrupt and repressive regimes
of the region, which he regards as "un-Islamic," including the Saudi Arabian
regime, the most extreme Islamic fundamentalist regime in the world, apart
from the Taliban, and a close US ally since its origins. Bin Laden despises
the US for its support of these regimes. Like others in the region, he
is also outraged by long-standing US support for Israel's brutal military
occupation, now in its 35th year: Washington's decisive diplomatic, military,
and economic intervention in support of the killings, the harsh and destructive
siege over many years, the daily humiliation to which Palestinians are
subjected, the expanding settlements designed to break the occupied territories
into Bantustan-like cantons and take control of the resources, the gross
violation of the Geneva Conventions, and other actions that are recognized
as crimes throughout most of the world, apart from the US, which has prime
responsibility for them. And like others, he contrasts Washington's dedicated
support for these crimes with the decade-long US-British assault against
the civilian population of Iraq, which has devastated the society and caused
hundreds of thousands of deaths while strengthening Saddam Hussein -- who
was a favored friend and ally of the US and Britain right through his worst
atrocities, including the gassing of the Kurds, as people of the region
also remember well, even if Westerners prefer to forget the facts. These
sentiments are very widely shared. The _Wall Street Journal_ (Sept. 14)
published a survey of opinions of wealthy and privileged Muslims in the
Gulf region (bankers, professionals, businessmen with close links to the
U.S.). They expressed much the same views: resentment of the U.S. policies
of supporting Israeli crimes and blocking the international consensus on
a diplomatic settlement for many years while devastating Iraqi civilian
society, supporting harsh and repressive anti-democratic regimes throughout
the region, and imposing barriers against economic development by "propping
up oppressive regimes." Among the great majority of people suffering deep
poverty and oppression, similar sentiments are far more bitter, and are
the source of the fury and despair that has led to suicide bombings, as
commonly understood by those who are interested in the facts.
The U.S., and much of the West, prefers a more comforting story. To quote the lead analysis in the _New York Times_ (Sept. 16), the perpetrators acted out of "hatred for the values cherished in the West as freedom, tolerance, prosperity, religious pluralism and universal suffrage." U.S. actions are irrelevant, and therefore need not even be mentioned (Serge Schmemann). This is a convenient picture, and the general stance is not unfamiliar in intellectual history; in fact, it is close to the norm. It happens to be completely at variance with everything we know, but has all the merits of self-adulation and uncritical support for power. It is also widely recognized that Bin Laden and others like him are
praying for "a great assault on Muslim states," which will cause "fanatics
to flock to his cause" (Jenkins, and many others.). That too is familiar.
The escalating cycle of violence is typically welcomed by the harshest
and most brutal elements on both sides, a fact evident enough from the
recent history of the Balkans, to cite only one of many cases.
What consequences will they have on US inner policy and to the American self reception? US policy has already been officially announced. The world is being
offered a "stark choice": join us, or "face the certain prospect of death
and destruction." Congress has authorized the use of force against any
individuals or countries the President determines to be involved in the
attacks, a doctrine that every supporter regards as ultra-criminal. That
is easily demonstrated. Simply ask how the same people would have reacted
if Nicaragua had adopted this doctrine after the U.S. had rejected the
orders of the World Court to terminate its "unlawful use of force" against
Nicaragua and had vetoed a Security Council resolution calling on all states
to observe international law. And that terrorist attack was far more severe
and destructive even than this atrocity.
As for how these matters are perceived here, that is far more complex.
One should bear in mind that the media and the intellectual elites generally
have their particular agendas. Furthermore, the answer to this question
is, in significant measure, a matter of decision: as in many other cases,
with sufficient dedication and energy, efforts to stimulate fanaticism,
blind hatred, and submission to authority can be reversed. We all know
that very well.
Do you expect U.S. to profoundly change their policy to the rest of the world? The initial response was to call for intensifying the policies that
led to the fury and resentment that provides the background of support
for the terrorist attack, and to pursue more intensively the agenda of
the most hard line elements of the leadership: increased militarization,
domestic regimentation, attack on social programs. That is all to be expected.
Again, terror attacks, and the escalating cycle of violence they often
engender, tend to reinforce the authority and prestige of the most harsh
and repressive elements of a society. But there is nothing inevitable about
submission to this course.
After the first shock, came fear of what the U.S. answer is going to be. Are you afraid, too? Every sane person should be afraid of the likely reaction -- the one
that has already been announced, the one that probably answers Bin Laden's
prayers. It is highly likely to escalate the cycle of violence, in the
familiar way, but in this case on a far greater scale.
The U.S. has already demanded that Pakistan terminate the food and other supplies that are keeping at least some of the starving and suffering people of Afghanistan alive. If that demand is implemented, unknown numbers of people who have not the remotest connection to terrorism will die, possibly millions. Let me repeat: the U.S. has demanded that Pakistan kill possibly millions of people who are themselves victims of the Taliban. This has nothing to do even with revenge. It is at a far lower moral level even than that. The significance is heightened by the fact that this is mentioned in passing, with no comment, and probably will hardly be noticed. We can learn a great deal about the moral level of the reigning intellectual culture of the West by observing the reaction to this demand. I think we can be reasonably confident that if the American population had the slightest idea of what is being done in their name, they would be utterly appalled. It would be instructive to seek historical precedents. If Pakistan does not agree to this and other U.S. demands, it may come
under direct attack as well -- with unknown consequences. If Pakistan does
submit to U.S. demands, it is not impossible that the government will be
overthrown by forces much like the Taliban -- who in this case will have
nuclear weapons. That could have an effect throughout the region, including
the oil producing states. At this point we are considering the possibility
of a war that may destroy much of human society.
Even without pursuing such possibilities, the likelihood is that an
attack on Afghans will have pretty much the effect that most analysts expect:
it will enlist great numbers of others to support of Bin Laden, as he hopes.
Even if he is killed, it will make little difference. His voice will be
heard on cassettes that are distributed throughout the Islamic world, and
he is likely to be revered as a martyr, inspiring others. It is worth bearing
in mind that one suicide bombing -- a truck driven into a U.S. military
base -- drove the world's major military force out of Lebanon 20 years
ago. The opportunities for such attacks are endless. And suicide attacks
are very hard to prevent.
"The world will never be the same after 11.09.01". Do you think so? The horrendous terrorist attacks on Tuesday are something quite new
in world affairs, not in their scale and character, but in the target.
For the US, this is the first time since the War of 1812 that its national
territory has been under attack, even threat. It's colonies have been attacked,
but not the national territory itself. During these years the US virtually
exterminated the indigenous population, conquered half of Mexico, intervened
violently in the surrounding region, conquered Hawaii and the Philippines
(killing hundreds of thousands of Filipinos), and in the past half century
particularly, extended its resort to force throughout much of the world.
The number of victims is colossal. For the first time, the guns have been
directed the other way. The same is true, even more dramatically, of Europe.
Europe has suffered murderous destruction, but from internal wars, meanwhile
conquering much of the world with extreme brutality. It has not been under
attack by its victims outside, with rare exceptions (the IRA in England,
for example). It is therefore natural that NATO should rally to the support
of the US; hundreds of years of imperial violence have an enormous impact
on the intellectual and moral culture.
It is correct to say that this is a novel event in world history, not
because of the scale of the atrocity -- regrettably -- but because of the
target. How the West chooses to react is a matter of supreme importance.
If the rich and powerful choose to keep to their traditions of hundreds
of years and resort to extreme violence, they will contribute to the escalation
of a cycle of violence, in a familiar dynamic, with long-term consequences
that could be awesome. Of course, that is by no means inevitable. An aroused
public within the more free and democratic societies can direct policies
towards a much more humane and honorable course.
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